tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14355716.post1830587290301111829..comments2023-10-07T18:37:45.321+11:00Comments on The Truth Will Set You Free: The Cross and the Kingdom (7)Stevehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12519210859079598351noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14355716.post-29176137465504999312009-03-02T22:21:00.000+11:002009-03-02T22:21:00.000+11:00Hi SteveI believe our community is now paying the ...Hi Steve<BR/><BR/>I believe our community is now paying the price for believing that the way they condensed "The Truth" in 1885 in an [amended] SoF was the <B>ONLY</B> way that things could be seen.<BR/><BR/>What you have been writing about the Cross and the Kingdom is so refreshing.<BR/><BR/>I believe it was Jesus' life that saves us - Hebrews says that the grave could not hold Him because of the power of the endless life within Him - and we have that same endless life within us.<BR/><BR/>He laid down His life for us... not by dying on a cross... but by living with His Father in a fruitful and functional way... and He showed us the way that we can do the very same thing.<BR/><BR/>The blood references at the final supper [of many?] that He held with His disciples [young, old, new and seasoned, male and female] were made in the context of ratifying a new covenant written in the hearts of men and women who now were making up the new spiritual temple... made up now of men and women right around this great globe... from every culture, tribe, nation and tongue.<BR/><BR/>The "new" passover Jesus gave "new" meaning to was never meant to be a blood absolution of sins committed... just as the original Passover wasn't. <BR/><BR/>Passover is a new beginning - a new relationship with God - it was never a forgivness of sins ritual.<BR/><BR/>Our concentration on atonement for sins at the MM is [I believe] a hang over from our Catholic roots and absolution of sins at the alter. [Yuk!]<BR/><BR/>My sins are forgiven in Christ continually because I am IN Him and IN Him there is NO SIN! My sins are forgiven daily... not just on Sundays... and it matters not whether I take bread and wine... my sins are forgiven when I acknowledge them and ask Father to deal with the problem!<BR/><BR/>How much blood did Jesus shed on the cross, by the way? The record is plain that He did not die from lack of blood... but rather from a broken heart.<BR/><BR/>Now that is something that many of us can identify with.<BR/><BR/>CliffCliff Yorkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06629155487095195768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14355716.post-24024345675867208282009-03-02T21:41:00.000+11:002009-03-02T21:41:00.000+11:00Well, I just don't get it. How does Jesus' death ...Well, I just don't get it. How does Jesus' death prove God loves us?<BR/>Love LindaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14355716.post-74526469114815098662009-03-02T08:23:00.000+11:002009-03-02T08:23:00.000+11:00Hi SteveI wholeheartedly agree with what you are s...Hi Steve<BR/><BR/>I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying. Just one comment, your reference to Anselm’s theory<BR/><BR/><BR/>The other alternative would be Anselm's satisfaction theory which had the debt being paid to the devil, which I personally think is absurd.<BR/><BR/>In the hands of Anselm this is absurd – but there is a sense in which this is right. The fact that we are purchased (in metaphor) is clear but within the framework of that metaphor – who are we purchased from?<BR/><BR/>Romans 6 is full of the metaphor of redemption in a slave market setting.<BR/><BR/>Acts 20:28<BR/>28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.<BR/><BR/>1 Corinthians 6:19-20<BR/>19) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?<BR/>20) For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.<BR/><BR/>2 Peter 2:1<BR/>1) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.<BR/><BR/>It would be silliness to imagine Jesus – who was one with his Father – would buy us out of the hand of God. In all cases where the metaphor is used – we are bought out of the hand of sin & guilt – the personification of the result of the actions of our own carnal nature.<BR/><BR/>To be purchased from sin & guilt is an expression of the truth that we have been held captive by these in the past and in Christ we are no longer. <BR/>We have been freed from our own fruitless struggle for self redemption.<BR/>In Christ we have rest from our labour in which the earth brought forth only thorns & thistles.<BR/><BR/>JohnUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04761138222266221808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14355716.post-60015158058860835432009-03-02T06:04:00.000+11:002009-03-02T06:04:00.000+11:00Stever you said:"Jesus' references during the last...Stever you said:<BR/>"Jesus' references during the last supper to His blood being shed to seal the new covenant are the language of covenants, not atonement. So it's actually doubtful whether Jesus ever referred to His own death as an atonement."<BR/><BR/>At the last supper Jesus said:<BR/>"This is my blood of the new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins".<BR/><BR/>Although Jesus never used the word "Atonement", this statement must surely be an "atonement statement. It points us back to those Old Testament sacrifices where blood WAS shed as one of the conditions of forgiveness. <BR/>a. through personal sacrifices<BR/>and<BR/>b. Nationally on The Day of<BR/> Atonement<BR/><BR/>Of course we should understand that to be effective the sacrifices had to be accompanied by "a broken spirit and a contrite heart". (Psalm 51:17)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14355716.post-68197726736310312662009-03-02T05:49:00.000+11:002009-03-02T05:49:00.000+11:00Steve, you said:However, Jesus himself never spoke...Steve, you said:<BR/>However, Jesus himself never spoke of His death as an 'atonement'. The Gospels record only one brief saying which possibly alludes to His death in atonement-theology terms - the 'ransom saying' of Mark 10:45 (parallel Matt 20:28), which may, or may not, be a reference to His death (to give ones life in service does not necessarily mean to die).<BR/><BR/>"RANSOM" is the paying of a price in exchange for the release of a captive.<BR/><BR/>In Mark 10:45 Jesus has said that:<BR/>1. He came to serve<BR/>and<BR/>2. that He came to give His life as a ransom for many.<BR/><BR/>It is difficult to see how the giving of His life as a "ransom" can refer to anything other than his death on the cross.<BR/><BR/>And that would mean that in some sense, His death was a price paid to release us from something.<BR/><BR/>The appropriate questions would seem to be "What was I released from by His death"?<BR/>and<BR/>"What are the conditions I must meet for the ransom to be personaly effective for me"?<BR/><BR/>AllonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com